Optional Rule - Larger Armies Opinions?

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Optional Rule - Larger Armies Opinions?

Postby LiquidWeird » Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:47 pm

Ok, as I've mentioned in earlier posts, my playerbase wants a less literary and more medieval style game, where nobles and subinfudation are based on the military might they can command as well as the nobility of blood and patrilineage.

That means that a Secret Army at rank 8 should be larger than 80 men, or I might as well find new players (Maybe I will anyway)

So. Here's what I'm proposing to do. It's a bit more complex, but I think it will work to satisfy my players without throwing the game as written out the window.

Each rank of Secret Army gives you 10 officers, each with 10 common soldiers. Generals are promoted as normal from the officer ranks.

No more than 1 Secret Army can be stationed in a single Province. Each rank of Secret Army requires 1 Farm to support it, but those farms can be spread among as many Provinces as you like. To have a Rank 10 Secret Army, you would need one Province with 8 Farms and one other with 2, or 2 provinces with 5 farms each, or 10 Provinces with one farm each.

So
1 Army per Province
1 Farm per Rank of Army


So 10 Provinces with 8 farms each could support 8 Secret Armies at Rank 10 and represent 8000 men under arms.

Personal Guard can be drafted into the Army, provided you already have enough farms to support them. Each Guardsman becomes an Officer and raises 10 men. This conversion is a Season Action. Your Swordsman becomes a General in charge of this newly converted Army, and the army grows as normal from there. You cannot change this new Secret Army back into a Personal Guard, you must recruit a new one from scratch to replace it.

What do you think? Is this terribly unbalanced? For Mass Murder, I'd include the Officers as Ven, and bundle the rolls all the extra men would make into their roll. After all, it's the officer's decisions that impact the battle.
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Re: Optional Rule - Larger Armies Opinions?

Postby roc » Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:56 pm

Well I can help adjust the math. When loyalty bonuses are added in the farms produce more, higher ranked farms also produce more. During (summer, I could be wrong) you get an extra resource.

So a rank 3 farm with a loyalty of 10 would create 5 food a season, and an extra during (summer, I think). so 1 farm could concievably support 21 levels of Secret Army if maxed out.

That could lead to some HUGE armies >.>
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Re: Optional Rule - Larger Armies Opinions?

Postby roc » Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:06 pm

As a side note, and from someone who loves their season actions:

Allowing an individual to take their Personal Guard and fold it into the Secret Army can cause it to grow way to fast.

3 Season actions to grow a Rank 3 Secret Army from a Rank 2 Secret Army vs 2 Season actions to create a Rank 1 Personal Guard and fold it in.
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Re: Optional Rule - Larger Armies Opinions?

Postby LiquidWeird » Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:11 pm

I thought that Secret Armies required that many farms to exist, regardless of the rank of the farm? Feeding them would count as normal, or 1 Food per rank, but to have a Rank 6 Army, you need to have 6 Farms, whether they are rank 1 or rank 3. Am I misremembering?

Hmm as for the guard to armies... makes sense. I was considering it as a seperate army (putting aside the '1 Secret Army per character rule.) but I might misremember that, too.

Still, you're right, that would mean a much faster army growth than is sensible.

Will require more thought...
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Re: Optional Rule - Larger Armies Opinions?

Postby roc » Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:20 pm

I am not at home at the moment, so I do not have my book with me, but I will most definetly look it up and respond (probably when I get back to work tomorrow lol)

For your game, changing the rules sounds fun and interesting and allowing it to work on the total food base would definetly scare your players (just imagine that duke who has 3 provinces full of Rank 3 farms with a loyalty of 10+) and the Secret Army he/she will have :P
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Re: Optional Rule - Larger Armies Opinions?

Postby Snag » Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:49 pm

P. 260
"An Army may only have a Rank equal to the number of Farms in your province."
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Re: Optional Rule - Larger Armies Opinions?

Postby roc » Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:54 pm

Thanks Snag!

But for the changes being implimented for his game, I think the rank and loyalty (total output of the farm) would be a much more fun way of operating it, and would allow for the cuttoff of supplies to hit HARD.

Also a sneaky individual (see Spymaster) could go in and cause trouble that could lead to the army 'Revolting' Oh the nastyness!

Edit:

Or finding someone who has the food, and turning on their master, the person who put in all this time and effort growing the army :P
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Re: Optional Rule - Larger Armies Opinions?

Postby roc » Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:03 pm

Oh and another idea!

With the poisons, upgraded armor and swords, and implimentation of the larger army rules, you could give them a Courage check (wine can help reinforce your groups morale against an imposing force)... I know if I had 5 friends with me and I saw 25 guys coming at me I would be scared, especially if their armor and weapons were all shiny!

If the other army gives up without a fight (loses the Courage check) then they can be absorbed into the invading force, or they simply flee into the wilderness to become bandits or possibly find other Armys to team up with.

Edit:
### I hate being bored at work, another idea :P

Also the castle could add to the courage of the Defender.
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Re: Optional Rule - Larger Armies Opinions?

Postby LiquidWeird » Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:13 pm

Snag wrote:P. 260
"An Army may only have a Rank equal to the number of Farms in your province."


Gotcha. So at most a Rank 8 army, per the book, and only if you have 8 Farms.

So with two Provinces and 4 farms each, I could support two Rank 4 armies. My tweak here lets me combine the farms from multiple Provinces, thus letting those two Provinces support one Rank 8 army. (though it's the same in terms of numbers.)

I'll probably just cut the bit about turning the Personal Guard into an Army. It's a hassle and there's little point to it.

All this is to support changes my players have been demanding. They aren't interested in the literary/operatic style, or a game of tragic courtly love, they want a machiavellian game of thrones and deadly politics, which involves fleshing out some of the things deliberately left vague. Like the economy and adding an actual warfare system. (though I wish they'd stop asking questions. They'd be better served by taking Wisdom risks or spending Style points)
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Re: Optional Rule - Larger Armies Opinions?

Postby roc » Wed Jan 14, 2009 3:38 pm

Also Martial Law.... if your areas are setup properly (given enough time to do so) one set of farms could support 12-20 Secret Armies (using the Rank 3 +2 loyalty bonus thing... 12 (3 food per farm 4 times a year) at the least because the loyalty bonus adds in quickly))

So that would just about make the SpyMasters interference worthless, and in a war game, it is the unseen threats that are the most fun.

With an army that vast, you could force your laborers to work (half heartedly no loyalty) for all of their lives and become a horrible tyrant, and with limits on the army by number of farms rather then amount the farms pump out, there would be no reason not implement "Chairman Mao" government system, and have nothing to fear from the Spymaster, simply because it would take the Spymaster completely crippling all of your vast farms instead of one.... it could also serve to keep your army sizes under control (if someone builds to the max and then does not have the food to pay.......)

Edit: Fixed math

Also looking at it this way... I suppose if you left it the way the book puts it you could severly limit the size of a secret army.... hmmmm being able to get a rank 12-20 secret army from one plot of land is pretty insane....
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