My friends want proof, not "blind faith"

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My friends want proof, not "blind faith"

Postby VENENO » Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:19 am

Hey there:

I have a huge problem.

I must confess, I'm a bit ashamed to admit it, (seems sooo silly) but, I have a big problem when discussing the ven w/my playing group/friends:

They don't believe the ven existed.

Yeah.

I guess it's my fault for not being thorough with my prep before game-time or when talking about ven culture, civilization or stuff, & getting at least some proof in the actual books/monographs/magazines, et al., on the ven - hey, some of these are quite expensive & some of those are quite rare & some of them aren't really available but at exhorbitant prices I can't afford! So, I'm left with pointing to the WWW for info & they usually only get hits from this site (of all things!) & such related (mostly game-y) so (again), we're back to square one.


This seems so stupid, but, has anyone else here had the same problems? What did you do to resolve them?


How do I make them believe?


Thanks!

Sorry to bother you
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Re: My friends want proof, not "blind faith"

Postby PookaJoe » Fri Jun 10, 2011 11:58 am

I'm new to the boards and I may have misunderstood this section and how your question relates to it but your question confuses me.

Your question has managed to break any suspension of Disbelief I might have engaged and would require me to employ a level of doublethink I would find Crippling.

If yours is a legitimate question and you really would like to find some materials to make Your Players believe in the Ven I will point out the Bibliography that starts on Page 14 is filled with Authors from other fictional Sources, Jeremiah Berek and Elaine Avalon being Characters from 7th Sea, Henry Armitage being a Character from H. P. Lovecrafts Dunwich Horror, and Jacob Black being a name I associate with the Twilight Series of all things, this continues through the Bibliography The Names are Literary and Gaming Refrences.
Whether the Ven ever existed or not should be irrelevant to running the game. Just as whether or not Elves ever existed in the real world is Irrelevant to Running D&D
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Re: My friends want proof, not "blind faith"

Postby VENENO » Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:09 pm

Hey there!

The ven did exist & that's relevant. Clearly you have been misinformed!


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Re: My friends want proof, not "blind faith"

Postby PookaJoe » Sat Jun 11, 2011 6:26 am

Not arguing their Existence, just arguing their existences relevance to running the game. :D

Which reminds me, as a passing Reference, have you had a chance to check out the Hokes Archive or Go see the Centaur Excavation display at the University of Tennessee.

http://notes.utk.edu/bio/unistudy.nsf/0/78dff46a51a10457852563f0000529bc?OpenDocument



It's amusing to see that a species of Ork Survived through to ancient Greece.
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Re: My friends want proof, not "blind faith"

Postby VENENO » Sat Jun 11, 2011 4:42 pm

Hiyas!

The ven ARE relevant to my playing group. Now, after playing the game they are "into" ven culture. Started to talk like 'em, mimic 'em; go figure. Maybe we will "LARP it" later!


...About your resolute answer about the various ven research, et. al., book's authors: I know a real guy named James Bond, is he a fictional character because his name's exactly the same as the fictional James Bond? How many livin' & breathin' Dr. Henry Armitages are in New England, I wonder?

Do you think that these authors even know that their names resemble fictional characters' in obscure RPGs?

There are also pen names, like Richard Bachman. I bet that, when writing about stuff as unconventional/controversial as the ven, some will try to hide their real identity. & I'm not stoking the fires of the rumour that Jared Sorensen & John Wick are in reality Kevin Siembeda, no sir!


Thanks for the link, I hope it's not a Rick Roll! :roll:


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Re: My friends want proof, not "blind faith"

Postby PandaDad » Thu Jul 28, 2011 9:14 pm

Esteemed Sir or Madame (as the case may be):

You have, I hope, familiarized your group with the Vostock and Haghut translation of the Voynich Manuscript, which is somewhat more reliable than the usual theosophic blandishments found cluttering up used bookstore shelves like the discarded Dick-and-Jane readers of one's distant childhood (if more challenging to discover)? If not, I shall perhaps encourage some of my colleagues to track down an extra copy or five at a more reasonable rate than usual. While Vostock and Haghut are as pedantic as any other scholars of their age, they remain more accessible in spite of their florid Victorian prose and have the added virtue of admitting when they resort to conjecture.

The primary difficulty in ven studies remains the simply unpleasant geography in which some of the more prominent finds have surfaced in our day and age: some of it is, as you know, very hot and dry. Some is hot and damp. An excessively large amount of it is contested by the groups of people who live on it, with the unfortunate accompanying skirmishes and ambuscades. Ours is thus hardly a discipline for dreamers and mystics who would madly pursue a mirage, however pretty it might seem, in lieu of cold, hard facts. Were your players to become more completely aware of the technical challenges of modern archaeology, they would not regard our efforts as an exercise in blind faith.

We are, after all, merely attempting to reconstruct an entire civilization from what meager bits and pieces have survived: this is rather like attempting to extrapolate the vibrant nightlife of Lost Kadath from a few fragments in a midden outside the ruins of Dylath Leen. I would object at the common conceit of referring to this as some manner of entertainment, save that such fiction serves to grant the field wider exposure (and the attendant increase in funding).


Grouchily yours,

PandaDad, Senior Reader in Invisible Runes
Wassamatta University
Frostbite Falls, Minneconsin, USA



Edit: a few minor tweaks to the wording to remove awkward phrasing and some punctuation clean up.
Last edited by PandaDad on Thu Jan 16, 2014 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: My friends want proof, not "blind faith"

Postby [ak][aramis] » Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:30 am

Ven have no need to be real to be played - in fact, it's often better to play pseudohisoricals (such as Pendragon, RuneQuest 3rd Edition's Fantasy Earth, Boot Hill, Gang Busters, Danger International) as if purely fictional, so that one can run a game more epic than the real world normally lets people get away with.

Now, at first, I wondered how John could have translated the Voynich Manuscript, but then it occurred to me... John's just crazy enough to have done it.... and the ven, fictional or otherwise, are an interesting hyperbole of Rome.... and several other ancient empires... which makes for good gaming.

In all seriousness, the Voynich Manuscript is very real. And very interesting to examine the scans of (which are available online via bittorrent).
Never grab a tiger by the tail.... unless it's sedated or dead!
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