Unblooded and Names

veth, ruk and shluah veth.

Moderator: Snag

Unblooded and Names

Postby Loqua » Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:58 am

The following does my very best to justify Unblooded ven having secret names. First I am going to present the mentioning of names from the book.

pg 49
Names
To the ven, names are sacred. I know, in our own culture, names don’t mean squat. But
for the ven, naming a thing means you own it. Parents name their children. Nobles name
their lands. A noble may even give a peasant a new name. She owns the peasant, after all.
Her right. For better or worse.
For the ven, names also have a spiritual significance. A name can set your destiny.
Change your name, you change the path you walk upon. This is a deep spiritual truth for
the ven. A name is no small affair. Sublime. Blessed. Sacred.
More than that, names are so powerful, that if you name a thing, you own it. So is
your power over it. You define its destiny. A mother and child. A beloved friend.
A triumphant enemy.
You name a thing, you own it.

Blooded Names
Blooded ven have three names. The first is the family name, indicating who owns you.
The second is the public name. This is the name people use when addressing you. Most ven,
but not all, change their personal name when they come of age: a symbolic act of “claiming
yourself.” Last is your secret name. The name your mother whispers in your ear when you
are only a babe and you never forget it. No, that isn’t a metaphor.

pg 50
UnBlooded Names
Unblooded ven have two names. The first is the name of your father or mother. The second
is the region you were born. That’s about it for the unblooded.
Some unblooded follow the tradition of their more noble cousins, adopting a third
name—one of their own choice—upon adulthood. Many unblooded see this as vanity
and asking for trouble.

pg 291
The Puppet
If you know the full name of another ven, you may perform this ritual. (Remember:
peasants do not have secret names.)

My main reason for Unblooded having Secret names is the pg. 49 Reference. Secret names are given at birth. In ven culture you are not born blooded, not born into nobility and there is no way to guarantee each child getting a secret name is going to become a noble. As anyone who has played the game for any amount of time knows how low one character (or family) can fall. Thus, if every child gets a secret name but not every child is blooded, every unblooded has a secret name.

I believe that all characters are named the same way as given in the page 50 reference. As it says that the Blooded seem to change their name at a moment of coming of age, a practice that is frowned on by the Unblooded. I don't think its unfair to suggest that the name change of the Blooded and the ritual itself are linked. The name change reflects that the blooded is not someones property anymore but instead are free to make their own way. This would justify a new public name and obviously the aquistion of a Family name. This would erase the name scheme given on page 50.

The last mention in the Puppet ritual is the hardest to justify and I honestly think has to be a mistranslation. It would seem far more likely that the ven simply don't care enough about their Unblooded's names. As it says in the beginning of page 49 that a noble can change the name of their unblooded vassals without issue. Would you bother to learn a second whole name for something you can rename at whim? American history can show that a conquering race has no problem changing the names of a a race in servitude. Dehumanizing isn't a new thing.

This would also give the Unblooded a limited invulnerability to sorcery and that really seems to be lame. Its not as cool. I would kick away "no unblooded secret names" on that alone.

The Unblooded have no family name, but they have a public and secret one. Thats what makes the most sense to me.

Thats my argument, have at it.
Blah-dee-blah-dee-blah.
Loqua
 
Posts: 212
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 11:42 pm

Re: Unblooded and Names

Postby alexanderthesoso » Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:52 pm

I would think that if an unblooded cannot do blood sorcery, due to becoming blooded "activating" the power, I would say that they have a secret name, but it has no power.
alexanderthesoso
 
Posts: 189
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:07 pm

Re: Unblooded and Names

Postby Loqua » Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:23 pm

alexanderthesoso wrote:I would think that if an unblooded cannot do blood sorcery, due to becoming blooded "activating" the power, I would say that they have a secret name, but it has no power.


Can you elaborate on this? I am not understanding.
Blah-dee-blah-dee-blah.
Loqua
 
Posts: 212
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 11:42 pm

Re: Unblooded and Names

Postby alexanderthesoso » Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:06 pm

It was discussed that its possible that becoming blooded is required to do blood sorcery, as your blood won't sustain it beforehand (being blooded activates your blood).

If thats the case, then perhaps the power of your secret name is tied to the blood as well. Your secret name is worthless, both for your own use, and to use against you, until you become blooded.
alexanderthesoso
 
Posts: 189
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:07 pm

Re: Unblooded and Names

Postby Loqua » Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:45 pm

alexanderthesoso wrote:It was discussed that its possible that becoming blooded is required to do blood sorcery, as your blood won't sustain it beforehand (being blooded activates your blood).

If thats the case, then perhaps the power of your secret name is tied to the blood as well. Your secret name is worthless, both for your own use, and to use against you, until you become blooded.


That doesn't make any sense though. The Secret Name is given to you at birth and the Blooding ritual doesn't change your secret name and no where does it say that Blood is tied to the name. What the point of having a secret name if it doesn't do anything for you?
Blah-dee-blah-dee-blah.
Loqua
 
Posts: 212
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 11:42 pm

Re: Unblooded and Names

Postby alexanderthesoso » Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:54 pm

Ritual and tradition?
alexanderthesoso
 
Posts: 189
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:07 pm

Re: Unblooded and Names

Postby Loqua » Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:16 pm

alexanderthesoso wrote:Ritual and tradition?



HotB has always (to me) been the type of game that everything on your character sheet does something for you. You need the names to make the sorcery work, that to me points to the names being a level above sorcery.
Blah-dee-blah-dee-blah.
Loqua
 
Posts: 212
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 11:42 pm

Re: Unblooded and Names

Postby Nihilistic Mind » Wed Oct 27, 2010 11:36 am

Since 'Houses of the Blooded' was written to play the noble, land-owning, Blooded ven, I am not surprised to read about 'their' belief that veth have only two names.

I think that when research is done on that very subject for future game supplements in which players will be able to create unblooded characters, we will probably see that the Unblooded do have a secret name all along, and that it does not have the same importance as the name of a Blooded ven.

Ryan, there is no Unblooded character sheet, so we still don't know for sure.

I could really see it be either of you and Alex' theories.
Perhaps the Blooding Ritual reveals (and reinforces) the ven's first moments in the world, as part of a symbolic rebirth, during which his Secret Name is revealed to him.
But perhaps not... Perhaps the Unblooded has known it all along.

I made my unblooded Ashveil character with a secret name. I was lucky enough to ask my Player Character mother to give me one. :D
"Sparrow, I'll call you back. I've just gutted a man with a shard of wood and I need to make sure he's dead... I think you're right, Sparrow. I am a bad, bad man..."
~~Dr. Xander Crowe, WORMWOOD.
User avatar
Nihilistic Mind
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1070
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 1:02 pm
Location: Phoenix, AZ U.S.A.

Re: Unblooded and Names

Postby Loqua » Wed Oct 27, 2010 11:48 am

Nihilistic Mind wrote:Since 'Houses of the Blooded' was written to play the noble, land-owning, Blooded ven, I am not surprised to read about 'their' belief that veth have only two names.

I think that when research is done on that very subject for future game supplements in which players will be able to create unblooded characters, we will probably see that the Unblooded do have a secret name all along, and that it does not have the same importance as the name of a Blooded ven.

Ryan, there is no Unblooded character sheet, so we still don't know for sure.

I could really see it be either of you and Alex' theories.
Perhaps the Blooding Ritual reveals (and reinforces) the ven's first moments in the world, as part of a symbolic rebirth, during which his Secret Name is revealed to him.
But perhaps not... Perhaps the Unblooded has known it all along.

I made my unblooded Ashveil character with a secret name. I was lucky enough to ask my Player Character mother to give me one. :D


Yes, my Daddy gave me a (secret) Name too. Maybe this is just an issue of each game deciding for themselves. I just felt like writing an actual argument.
Blah-dee-blah-dee-blah.
Loqua
 
Posts: 212
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 11:42 pm

Re: Unblooded and Names

Postby Bards-Tale » Wed Oct 27, 2010 11:57 am

I am going to throw one thing in as well just for debate. (ok, more then one, but you know what I mean).
Ashvail is Veth but not Ruk
Iratu is Veth and Ruk
The difference is that the probability of a child born from a Ven mother and a Ven father never having the option to be Blooded is VERY unlikely (though would make for an interesting character) but the probability of a child from a Veth father and Veth mother never being Blooded is VERY likely. (though now it makes me wonder of how many times there are VenxVeth children and do they get Blooded?)
Because of this, when that child is born to a Ven and Ven, the mother would whisper in their ear their Secret name, knowing they would be a Noble one day.
Iratu's mother probably never thought he would be more then another servant, she didn't know he would rise to actually be a wave in the courts or have Noble's fear his abilities. She probably wove baskets her whole life and thought her son would do the same. With that why would she give a secret name when the book says they don't.
Now, since Iratu has grown in power and views himself as more then just a servant maybe he has undergone his own kind of Ritual and has received a secret name. How did Iratu get his power? Was it one day he was walking along and was like "Hey tree, grow" and it just did, or do you have to go under some kind of unblooded ritual to become a "Voice of Shanri"? Maybe the very thing that makes him a "Druid" gave him a secret name. So do all veth have a secret name? No. Do a select few do? Yes.
"Some men see things that are that ask 'why'. I see things that never were and ask 'why not'?"
User avatar
Bards-Tale
 
Posts: 251
Joined: Mon May 17, 2010 1:34 pm

Next

Return to The Unblooded

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron