Banking Style

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Re: Banking Style

Postby Rob Justice » Mon Sep 22, 2008 11:35 am

Incubus wrote:What I mean by this is that if you raise your Spouse to an NPC; She could have the Beauty that you lack and can make things for you...of course, she will also wants something in exchange.....very Ven.


But she can never, ever, Bank style for you. So for the Player to have carry-over style... doesn't help.

Incubus wrote:A Romance could help in this regard also....."My Love, you need to present me a Hat/Boots/etc.. that shows your devotion..." but at what cost.....


1st Problem: Its harder then hell to have a decent Romance with a Beauty Weakness.
2nd Problem: With the old ruling, even if you're gifted Goods, you still can't wear them. You can only wear Goods equal to your Beauty. With a Beauty Weakness, you can wear Zero Goods.

Incubus wrote:Vassals are another source of BEAUTY that you could leverage for ART, OPERA and the like...Fealty is a wonderful thing.....


Still, can't bank style in Vassals and that was the original question. Yes, you can use Vassals to make goods/art/etc for you, but none of them (sans-Maid/Valet) can help you bank style. Again, even if they make Goods for you; you can't wear them.

Incubus wrote:You could trade FAVORS with others, or force Favors (very Ven) from others that give you access to what you lack....


You can't bank style in Favors. You can't barter for Goods to wear because the rule prevents you from wearing any Goods. Still, doesn't help you with banking style.

Incubus wrote: I see that we disagree on this subject and I respect that....I just happen to like the way John had it before and I hope he reconsiders his position....


I'm not trying to be a wanker here, I just think you're missing a lot of what I'm trying to point out. If your Character can't wear Goods to bank Style in, then you the Player are penalized in the game for it. You get less creative control over your game and are forced to sit back while other Players and NPCs build the world.

Now granted, its only for carry-over Style but the point still stands. I don't like the idea of limited a Player because of something with the Character.
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Re: Banking Style

Postby Rob Justice » Mon Sep 22, 2008 11:38 am

Ashkelion-Yvarai wrote:My players just like to spend it like candy... my active players usually have around 2-3 style points. The others collect the style up to 8 or 9, then start spending it.


Oh, I believe that its spent like crazy... and I'd like to be able to bank some away to spend like crazy at the start of games :D
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Re: Banking Style

Postby Ashkelion-Yvarai » Mon Sep 22, 2008 11:46 am

Me too. I am playing an Elk at friend's game. His weakness, after much deliberation, I have chosen to be Beauty.
But his public name and an extra aspect are helping to cover this a bit.
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Re: Banking Style

Postby Incubus » Mon Sep 22, 2008 12:22 pm

Rob, I hope I never suggested that I thought you where a wanker! (this is bad form)

You point is understood, understood, understood....
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Re: Banking Style

Postby Rob Justice » Mon Sep 22, 2008 12:27 pm

Oh no, there was no suggestion. I was just being preemptive. :D
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Re: Banking Style

Postby Incubus » Mon Sep 22, 2008 12:52 pm

Sir, how dare you Insult me Sir.... <wink>
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Re: Banking Style

Postby Rob Justice » Mon Sep 22, 2008 12:55 pm

You have my apologies. :D
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Re: Banking Style

Postby theotherandy » Mon Sep 22, 2008 3:58 pm

robjustice wrote:If your Character can't wear Goods to bank Style in, then you the Player are penalized in the game for it. You get less creative control over your game and are forced to sit back while other Players and NPCs build the world.

Now granted, its only for carry-over Style but the point still stands. I don't like the idea of limited a Player because of something with the Character.

Admittedly, we've only played out some character creation actions, but I think that Wisdom weakness is just as, or more, limiting in terms of building the world. Since my group has one character with Wisdom weakness and one with Beauty weakness, I'll use a slight modification to the original Beauty weakness* and see what happens. I think the Wisdom weakness will be more limiting, so I'll also give one automatic wager to everyone for some world-building Wisdom risks.** Even with this bonus wager, I still think the Wisdom weakness will be more limiting to the player than the Beauty weakness will - and if the player isn't interested in creating art (and there's plenty else to do), then Beauty becomes an easier dump stat.*** I'll see what happens in play before easing up more than this on Beauty weakness. Of course, I'm weak.

* The fashionable goods limit (not counting a sword) will be one plus Beauty. Thus a Ven with Beauty weakness gets to make any one Good look good. (And I'll use fashion degradation.)
** Since there are three players, I don't think I'll have more than 4 wagers on average (one automatic times three, plus one for the single PC that has Beauty greater than 2).
*** After all, screwing up relationships and taking insults (by failing Beauty risks) still nets the player plenty of "screen time."
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Re: Banking Style

Postby Rob Justice » Mon Sep 22, 2008 4:12 pm

One thing that can counter balance the world crafting in Wisdom is spending Style Points. If you spend a style point you can just declare things. If someone else doesn't like it, they bid style against it.

I'll admit, Cunning and Wisdom as Weaknesses would SUCK as well but there are ways to counter-balance that. Via Aspect and spending Style. Now, you can make up for some of Beauty's weaknesses there is zero you can do with that old rule in place for banking style.

Honestly, if there is a "dump" stat for HotB its gotta be Strength in my book. Of course, I'd argue all day long there is no "dump" stat.
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Re: Banking Style

Postby Ashkelion-Yvarai » Tue Sep 23, 2008 12:04 pm

robjustice wrote:Honestly, if there is a "dump" stat for HotB its gotta be Strength in my book. Of course, I'd argue all day long there is no "dump" stat.


In my group, about 80% of the characters have Strength as weakness. Compared to other weaknesses, no Strength isn't really a disadvantage in most situations. But, it can hurt. Only not as much as having no Wisdom, no Cunning, no Prowess, no Courage or no Beauty hurts.

Each of the five other stats has some serious power apart from being useful for risks. Strength doesn't.

No Cunning: no season actions, hindered in espionage, hindered/limited in deducing other people's aspects.
No Courage: risks under dangerous circumstances become style-point sinks, limited in facing orks.
No Beauty: hindered/limited in creating art, debating in front of the senate, making contracts, insulting people (almost every single neat new mechanic in the game)
No Wisdom: no additional aspects, hindered/limited in creating truths about the world.
No Prowess: hindered/limited in duels... a danger all of its own in ven society. Wear no sword at your own risk.

No Strength: hindered/limited in taking Strength risks, hindered/limited in Grappling (how gauche!). Doesn't seem to be much compared to the other five.

If Strength would also mean Strength of personality and represent for example the maximum devotion you could hold to the Suaven, it would become a totally different issue. Or if Strength would be useful for some important game mechanic, again different deal.

As it stands now, chosing Strength as a weakness is a no brainer.
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