Orks and Terror in Mass Murder

One question per post, please!

Moderator: Snag

Orks and Terror in Mass Murder

Postby hyaxinth » Sat Jun 12, 2010 3:53 am

From the 'Actively using Courage Thread' my understanding of Orks and Terror is like this

1. The Narrator rolls a number of dice equal to the ork's terror rating. The character rolls their courage. Straight contested roll.

2. If you succeed you get any wagers you made as bonus dice during you encounter with the Orc.

3. If you fail, you have to spend one style point & number of wagers equal to the terror level of the Ork for each attack.


Hope this is right ?

But now my question:

Assuming my charakter is Ork hunting together with his Guard, Roadman and some Vassals:

How would the courage roll for the whole hunting party look like ?
User avatar
hyaxinth
 
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:32 am

Re: Orks and Terror in Mass Murder

Postby Nihilistic Mind » Fri Jun 18, 2010 11:24 am

You roll Courage plus Bonus Dice equal to the Rank of the Vassals you have brought.
But here's the caveat, if you don't want them to flee in terror, you still need to set aside wagers for each Rank of Vassal you're bringing into the fight.
"Sparrow, I'll call you back. I've just gutted a man with a shard of wood and I need to make sure he's dead... I think you're right, Sparrow. I am a bad, bad man..."
~~Dr. Xander Crowe, WORMWOOD.
User avatar
Nihilistic Mind
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1070
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 1:02 pm
Location: Phoenix, AZ U.S.A.

Re: Orks and Terror in Mass Murder

Postby Kyocera Ru » Sat Jun 19, 2010 6:11 am

Wait, what? I've never heard of that now.

Courage is still extremely confusing. So now we add a dice for each rank of vassal, but we have to wager that dice if we don't want them to run? Do those wagered dice give us bonus dice like usual? And how does the basic roll work? Do we have to put aside wagers equal to the terror rating as well? Do we just spend a style to act if we fail? Do we spend a number of style equal to the terror rating? Do we have to spend wagers equal to the terror rating with each roll against the ork even if we succeed? If we fail?
Jeffrey Witthauer
Evil Narrator of Knoxville, TN

Play Blood & Tears at Dragon*Con 2011!
User avatar
Kyocera Ru
 
Posts: 154
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:09 pm
Location: Knoxville, TN

Re: Orks and Terror in Mass Murder

Postby Nihilistic Mind » Sat Jun 19, 2010 8:11 am

Ok, let's take a look at Ork and Terror from the rules in the Main HotB book.
Page 406.

The Ork has an arbitrary Terror Rank.

Your noble Ven rolls Courage virtue plus any appropriate bonuses.

Part of those bonuses are the Ranks of his Vassals (They're gonna help him during Mass Murder, right?), any appropriate Aspect, Name, etc.

Then we have this thread: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=157
There, John says "When a ven loses a Courage risk against Terror, he must make a number of wagers equal to the rank of the Terror to take any risks against the ork. He must make these wagers just to overcome his own fear."

There, we learn that succeeding in the Terror Risk allows the ven to overcome his fear and no longer needs to set aside Wagers equal to the Ork's Terror for any subsequent Risk against the Ork (as in Mass Murder for instance).

It seems that your confusion stems from this, so I'll make it more clear: When you first Roll Courage etc against the Ork's Terror rating, you don't need to set aside Wagers equal to the Ork's Terror Rating... They only apply if you fail your original Courage Risk vs Terror and you still wish to take Risks against the Ork.

That's the way I understand it...
Am I missing something?
"Sparrow, I'll call you back. I've just gutted a man with a shard of wood and I need to make sure he's dead... I think you're right, Sparrow. I am a bad, bad man..."
~~Dr. Xander Crowe, WORMWOOD.
User avatar
Nihilistic Mind
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1070
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 1:02 pm
Location: Phoenix, AZ U.S.A.

Re: Orks and Terror in Mass Murder

Postby Kyocera Ru » Sat Jun 19, 2010 11:52 am

Thank you, that's very succinct and I understand now. One last question, per your earlier message: Do you have to set aside wagers on the original courage risk to keep your vassals from fleeing in terror (1 per rank)? Do these wagers count as wagers for bonus dice (as per the post on John Wick's blog that allows courage wagers to be used as bonus dice), or not?
Jeffrey Witthauer
Evil Narrator of Knoxville, TN

Play Blood & Tears at Dragon*Con 2011!
User avatar
Kyocera Ru
 
Posts: 154
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:09 pm
Location: Knoxville, TN

Re: Orks and Terror in Mass Murder

Postby Nihilistic Mind » Sun Jun 20, 2010 2:23 pm

The way I see it, you get to roll the rank of the Vassal, but you only spend one Wager for that Vassal Band (kinda like how it only takes One Food Resource to feed a Band Vassal at Rank 3).
...

I'm not sure what the official word of Grandmaster Wick is, but I would run it like this (I'll use a pretend character with all the right attributes):

Faolan Thorne is accompanied by his Valet (Rank 1), Personal Guard (Rank 2), his Spy Network (Rank 1) AND his Roadmen (Rank 3).

In the Forests of his lands, Faolan and his men see a small white ork with stone-textured skin and short limbs, making his way to the white mountains of his lands. From afar Faolan decides to give chase. Faolan's Valet volunteers to approach such a small ork on his own (he has the Aspect: Hunter) in order to impress his master ("Maybe he'll train me more!").

Alas, when Faolan finds the remains of his valet, the once small white ork has grown in size and its smooth stoneskin is now covered in bright red blood. Faolan realizes just what this ork is. It is the mythic Peralti, ravager of land!
Faolan still wishes to face this Rank 6 Ork. The Peralti has a Terror Rating of 6 also.

Faolan Thorne has the Courage Virtue (4), the Ork Killer Aspect (3) and the name Thorne means "I am the Land" (or Wild Land) which is appropriate for this Risk (1). He gets to roll a total of 8 dice, plus his vassals (1+2+3).

He has 14 Dice. He can set aside 9 Wagers, cover the Terror of Rank 6 and his 3 Vassal Bands. He would then roll 5 Dice against 6 the Ork would roll.

The player (assuming it's me) is a gambling man when it comes to situations like this and decides to go for it.
{(14:16:58) ChatBot: Nihilistic_Mind rolls 5d6 and gets 5,2,1,2,1.
(14:17:14) ChatBot: Nihilistic_Mind rolls 6d6 and gets 5,5,5,1,5,1.}
Faolan rolls 11.
Peralti rolls 22.

Dammit!

Faolan keeps 5 Wagers. He spends one Wager on his Roadmen, one Wager on his Personal Guard, and lets his Spy Network run away in fear of the Ork (He will kill them all later... if he makes it out alive). He has three Wagers left that can be used to reduce the Terror that the Ork has inflicted upon them. Thusly, throughout the Mass Murder, they will only suffer a 3-Wager Penalty for every Risk. Each Round, they will have to set aside 3 Dice from their pool to face the Ork Peralti.
"Sparrow, I'll call you back. I've just gutted a man with a shard of wood and I need to make sure he's dead... I think you're right, Sparrow. I am a bad, bad man..."
~~Dr. Xander Crowe, WORMWOOD.
User avatar
Nihilistic Mind
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1070
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 1:02 pm
Location: Phoenix, AZ U.S.A.

Re: Orks and Terror in Mass Murder

Postby Kyocera Ru » Mon Jun 21, 2010 8:58 am

Great, except that this once again contradicts the basic method of rolling courage risks! Now you are saying that wagers need to be set aside on the COURAGE risk equal to the ork's terror rating, and that it can be bought down similar to injuries. But not only is that completely different from the above listed step-by-step for courage risks, but it also seems excessive. Faolan seems built for this kind of thing. Most characters, though, will be sitting on a courage of, lets say, rank 3. Even if they are big, tough, martial characters they might not have an aspect that applies to courage risks, instead choosing aspects that relates to their skilled swordplay, or something similar. So rank 3, + 3 for a Personal Guard, is 6. Even against a Terror 3 ork (which is on the low end of average,) that's nearly impossible. 3 wagers to match the terror, one to protect the Personal Guard, and then the PC rolls 2 dice against the Ork's 3 dice. Chances are the PC won't even hit 10. And this is just for a terror 3 ork. A terror 4 ork would be impossible to stand against with your Personal Guard. A terror 5 ork would just be impossible to face.

This method of courage risks is crippling. In last night's game the PCs ran into terror rating 1 orks, requiring little more than hitting 10 on a courage risk, and all the social characters failed. That's in character for them, they put their points elsewhere.

It seems every "clarification" we're getting on this issue somehow contradicts the clarification we got previously, and this clarification in particular seems... very excessive. Faolan Thorne seems well-built for courage risks, one of the more well-built characters that are possible. He carried along all his vassals to help him. And he still failed. I put it to you that if someone built for the task like Faolan Thorne fails, then each and every one of his companions is going to fail as well, even worse.

I like the idea of wagers buying down ork terror rating. That's a good idea. But if that happens, then the courage roll shouldn't be contested, but just a straight TN 10 roll. Or else wagers CAN be used to buy down ork terror ratings in the case of failure, but are unnecessary if you succeed (being used then just for future bonus dice or else to encourage vassals not to break and run.)
Jeffrey Witthauer
Evil Narrator of Knoxville, TN

Play Blood & Tears at Dragon*Con 2011!
User avatar
Kyocera Ru
 
Posts: 154
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:09 pm
Location: Knoxville, TN

Re: Orks and Terror in Mass Murder

Postby Nihilistic Mind » Mon Jun 21, 2010 11:39 am

OMG, my bad, I made a mistake here...

You're right: If you succeed your Courage Risk VS. Terror (i.e. Narrator rolls as many dice as the Terror Rank), you don't need to set aside wagers equal to the Ork's Terror rating as part of future Risks taken against that Ork.

Wow, every time I look at this thread it really is getting more confusing...
Alright, looks like it's time to have a sit-down with John about this.

As an alternate (and to make things easier until I get more on the matter), don't roll bonuses for your vassals and assume they follow you in (or out if you fail).
"Sparrow, I'll call you back. I've just gutted a man with a shard of wood and I need to make sure he's dead... I think you're right, Sparrow. I am a bad, bad man..."
~~Dr. Xander Crowe, WORMWOOD.
User avatar
Nihilistic Mind
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1070
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 1:02 pm
Location: Phoenix, AZ U.S.A.


Return to Frequently Asked Questions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron