What's the point of Strike Bids?

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What's the point of Strike Bids?

Postby bluegargantua » Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:22 pm

Hi,

I ran a couple sessions of HotB at Dreamation this weekend. Since everyone was a Spring Baron/ess and didn't have maneuvers, I used the base system to do the Duels, but it reminded me that I have no idea what the point of the strike bid is. In the rulebook it just lets you declare your intention first which doesn't seem to be all that important. There's another FAQ thread about mass murder where John mentions that the winner of the strike bid determines who spends wagers first, but I'm still not sure that's helpful.

Two PCs A and B get in a duel to first blood. A wins the strike bid and his intent is "I stick you and make you bleed". Is there any reason why B shouldn't then declare "Actually, i stick you and make you bleed instead"? Since the winner of the die roll gets their intent and the loser doesn't, why would B ever say "I get out of the way and you don't hit me" as the book suggests? And why would B (or A) bother with strike bids in this case? Saving dice for wagers/to roll seems much more important.

I suppose if the winner of a strike bid gets to spend wagers first win or lose on the roll, then they can use that to inflict injuries even if they aren't successful in the roll, but in that case, if the loser of the strike bid announced that his intent is to not get hit and he wins the roll, doesn't spending wagers that way invalidate his intent? And if I'm the strike bid winner, I should absolutely announce my intent is to not get hit because if I win I don't get hit and injure you on my first wager and if I lose, I go first and injure you anyway.

Any help on this one?
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Re: What's the point of Strike Bids?

Postby Skaldsaga » Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:51 pm

I think the point of it is, that everything in ven culture has a ritual. Duels especially. The ritual to the duel is their is one attacker and one defender. And they take turns until some is dead or bleeding, depending on the terms of the duel. Something akin to the viking duels, three shields, and both take turns attacking until there are no more shields or someone yields or someone is dead. So I guess both side could state their intent is to hit the other, but that would go against the ritual of the Duel. Bad Form for the duelists.
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Re: What's the point of Strike Bids?

Postby JohnWick » Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:03 am

In a duel, the attacker's intent is "I hurt you," and the defender's intent is "I prevent you from hurting me."

So, yes, there is something preventing the defender from attacking when it is the attacker's turn.
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Re: What's the point of Strike Bids?

Postby RainShaman » Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:13 am

From what i understand, both fighters can use their wagers to influence the outcome of the beat. The winner of the roll get privilege and keep all his wagers, while the loser lose half of his own wagers but still can use the rest to do whatever he wishes. Thus winning the strike bid gives you a certain advantage, but losing it dosn't mean you are powerless.

Is there any reason why B shouldn't then declare "Actually, i stick you and make you bleed instead"?

Because what has already been set as truth cannot be changed. However, the second player can say that "and I wound you too" if he wants. If he doesn't want to get hurt, he should spend his wager to defend against his opponent attack ("but the wound is just a nick"), but then he couldn't attack with the same wager since you can only say one thing with a wager.
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Re: What's the point of Strike Bids?

Postby Keith Fyans » Tue Feb 24, 2009 9:14 am

In a duel, the attacker's intent is "I hurt you," and the defender's intent is "I prevent you from hurting me."

What if, in the nature of tragedy, the winner of the strinke bid has the intent "I hurt you" and the defender's intent is "And I hurt you too" (wrecklessness brought about by Romance/Revenge)?
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Re: What's the point of Strike Bids?

Postby JohnWick » Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:15 am

Tsanuri wrote:
In a duel, the attacker's intent is "I hurt you," and the defender's intent is "I prevent you from hurting me."

What if, in the nature of tragedy, the winner of the strinke bid has the intent "I hurt you" and the defender's intent is "And I hurt you too" (wrecklessness brought about by Romance/Revenge)?


No.
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Re: What's the point of Strike Bids?

Postby Keith Fyans » Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:49 am

Though so, but it is nice to seek clarity (perhaps just the mindset I am in at the moment... I'm doing a huge project on process redesign for the work at the mo).

/Devils Advocate :twisted:

(Aside: I would allow both characters to attack each other in the same beat if they agreed that both characters would die, but this wouldn't involve any dice - a deadly embrace as a mutually agreed action, not a risk)
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Re: What's the point of Strike Bids?

Postby Ashkelion-Yvarai » Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:18 pm

Tsanuri wrote:(Aside: I would allow both characters to attack each other in the same beat if they agreed that both characters would die, but this wouldn't involve any dice - a deadly embrace as a mutually agreed action, not a risk)


THAT is stylish. I can see a couple of situations where this would be a preferable and fitting outcome to a duel. Two lovers forced into a duel... friends that die for their families... all kinds of tragedies can lead to such an end, all kind of tragedies can arise from such an end.

Style point.
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Re: What's the point of Strike Bids?

Postby JohnWick » Tue Feb 24, 2009 4:18 pm

Ashkelion-Yvarai wrote:
Tsanuri wrote:(Aside: I would allow both characters to attack each other in the same beat if they agreed that both characters would die, but this wouldn't involve any dice - a deadly embrace as a mutually agreed action, not a risk)


THAT is stylish. I can see a couple of situations where this would be a preferable and fitting outcome to a duel. Two lovers forced into a duel... friends that die for their families... all kinds of tragedies can lead to such an end, all kind of tragedies can arise from such an end.

Style point.


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Re: What's the point of Strike Bids?

Postby bluegargantua » Wed Feb 25, 2009 11:44 am

So let me see if I've got this straight:

The winner of the strike bid is the attacker and his intent is always to injure the opponent.

The loser of the strike bid is the defender and his intent is always to avoid being injured.

Even if the attacker lost the contested roll, they can still spend wagers to Injure the defender (or on other maneuvers that support this).

Even if the defender lost the contested roll, they can still spend wagers to Defend against the attacker (or on other maneuvers that support this).

These are the only ways to spend wagers in a duel.

The two benefits to winning the contested roll are 1.) You keep all your wagers and the opponent only gets half (as usual) and 2.) You get one free Injure/Defend (depending on your role).

The attacker always determines who spends the first wager.

Correct?
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