What were the other 4 Houses, and their Virtues?

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What were the other 4 Houses, and their Virtues?

Postby CodexArcanum » Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:09 pm

So it's mentioned that there are 6 Houses, but 4 are now vieled (and with Elk half-vieled and Snake always on the verge). Let's play speculation (or broadcast knowledge unknown to little old me), What animals defined the other 4 Houses? What were their lost virtues? Why were they vieled, and what was lost to the ven because of it?

My guess on the other animals is from the "Sacred Animals" part of the book: Boar, Spider, Cat, and Wasp seem likely. I suppose there's also an argument for Horse and maybe the mythical Dragon house.

Virtues... I think
Boar - Boar almost seems the saint of Violence, but I'm going to guess the virtue of War. Open conflict is something the Ven aren't good at. That weakness meshes well with Wolf's Prowess as well. Single-combat good, mass-combat bad.
Cat - Spirituality, I would guess. The Cat's ability to see the invisible world combined with the Ven's lack of belief in souls reinforce this connection to me.
Spider - easily the lost virtue of Patience. Ven don't wait (and the rules in the Poison chapter reinforce this connection)
Wasp - maybe Community. Bees work together to build and guard treasures.


Hmmm... thoughts?
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Re: What were the other 4 Houses, and their Virtues?

Postby Mishka » Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:27 pm

I don't know why, but somehow I really want to see Loyalty, Honesty, Patience and Compassion
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Re: What were the other 4 Houses, and their Virtues?

Postby JohnWick » Tue Sep 09, 2008 4:16 pm

As I said elsewhere, two of the Vieled Houses will be in the Slumming Sourcebook. The third will be unveiled in the Wilderness Sourcebook. And I can't say anything about the fourth unless I want "TRAITOR" tattooed to my forehead for a year and a day.

But please, feel free to speculate!
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Re: What were the other 4 Houses, and their Virtues?

Postby wunderworks » Wed Sep 10, 2008 12:13 pm

JohnWick wrote:As I said elsewhere, two of the Vieled Houses will be in the Slumming Sourcebook. The third will be unveiled in the Wilderness Sourcebook. And I can't say anything about the fourth unless I want "TRAITOR" tattooed to my forehead for a year and a day.

But please, feel free to speculate!


Mr. Wick, may I present you with this fine silk bandana - it is said that it can cover a multitude of sins - everything from hair loss to unsightly blemishes. Not that you would have to worry about such things. Now, I had one question for your regarding these Houses you called Veiled....
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Re: What were the other 4 Houses, and their Virtues?

Postby Ashkelion-Yvarai » Thu Sep 11, 2008 2:20 pm

This is worth a Style point! *ROTFL*
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Re: What were the other 4 Houses, and their Virtues?

Postby Scaramouche » Sat Sep 13, 2008 10:51 pm

Well, sure, why not have some fun with wild speculation!

Wasp: Humility. While named a wasp for its venom, the act of making honey is a community effort with each given to his role without complaint or undue pride. Another option here might be Toil/Labor. Both labor and humility are virtues the Ven definitely lack, now that the Wasp are veiled.

Spider: Yeah, I agree, Patience. Again, notably lacking among the Ven.

Cat: I want to go with Prudence, here. The cat is cautious, aware, sly but not cunning. And now there is no prudence to balance Falcon's courage.

Boar: The simple route here seems to be Tenacity/Perseverance/Resolve. And I think that'd be fine but there's a part of me that wants to turn it on its ear and go with something like Joy. The Boar revels in being itself. It cares not for the opinions of others but rather delights in its own existence, rapacious in appetite and unapologetic in behavior. Also, that implies, interestingly, that the Ven have lost some measure of Joy.
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Re: What were the other 4 Houses, and their Virtues?

Postby Rob Justice » Tue Sep 16, 2008 7:13 am

I've pulled a list of animals and their associated traits off of the internet at some point... I was using them for fever dreams in one of my games. Anyway...

* Alligator - Aggression, survival, adaptability, deceptive.
* Ant - Group minded, perseverance, self-discipline, group effort, teamwork, industriousness, orderliness, virtue. Strength, stamina, honor.
* Antelope - Lunar animal, associated with the Mother. Grace, beauty.
* Ape/Monkey - Mischief, mimicry, cunning, benevolence. Humanity, nurture.
* Baboon - Hailer of the dawn.
* Badger - Supernatural power, mischief, playful. Other world, wisdom, caring.
* Bat - Guardian of the night, cleaner, obscurity, messenger, double nature, happiness, good luck, longevity, peace; also - hypocrisy, melancholy, revenge, wisdom.
* Bee - Immortality, rebirth, industry, order, purity, soul, chastity, messengers between worlds, secret wisdom, Mother and priestesses. Community.
* Birds - The soul, transcendence, spirits of air, ascent, communication, freedom, sight.
* Beaver - Builder, gatherer.
* Blackbird - Enchantment, the Gateway, the inner call. Guide, illumination.
* Boar - The warrior spirit, leadership, direction, lust, gluttony, fertility, prophecy, magic, protection, hospitality.
* Buffalo - Sacredness, life builder. The buffalo provides all good things for living, and bestows great curing powers.
* Bull - Wealth, potency, beneficence, generative force, male procreative strength, kingship, taming of the masculine and animal nature. Destructive force.
* Butterfly - Metamorphosis, carefree, transformer, immortality, rebirth, resurrection. Grace, light, soul.
* Cat - Guardianship, detachment, sensuality, stealth, desire, liberty, pleasure, magic, lust, pride, vanity.
* Cock - Solar, courage, vigilance, supremacy, passion, pride, the underworld.
* Cougar - Leadership, courage, power, swiftness and balance.
* Cow - Nourishment, motherhood, power of Earth, plenty, procreation, gentleness, nurturing.
* Coyote - Prankster, insight, playful. The coyote symbolizes duality and the ability to present both sides of an issue. Clowning and humor, perhaps sarcastic.
* Crane - Solitude, independence, messenger, communion, higher state of consciousness, wisdom, knowledge.
* Crocodile - Devourer, liberation, guardian, dual nature, conscious and unconscious, fertility, brutality, viciousness, deceit, treachery.
* Crow - Messenger, death, wisdom, communication, the underworld.
* Deer - Love, gentleness, kindness, gracefulness, sensitivity, purity of purpose, walking in the light, swift, nimble, meek, gentle, meditation, love, longevity, wealth.
* Dog - Guidance, protection, loyalty, fidelity, faithfulness, watchfulness, the Hunt.
* Dolphin - Kindness, play, savior, guide, sea power, swift, intelligence, communication, breath control, awareness of tone.
* Donkey - Humility, patience, peace, stupidity, stubbornness, lewdness.
* Dragonfly - Flighty, carefree, swift, activity, shamanistic, supernatural powers.
* Eagle - Divine spirit, air, the sun, power in battle, protection from evil, clear vision, success, prosperity, wealth, intelligence, renewal, courage.
* Elephant - Strength, fidelity, memory, patience, wisdom, intelligence, power.
* Frog - Power of water, sensitivity, medicine, hidden beauty, power.
* Goat - Vitality, fertility, creativity, virility, abundance, lust.
* Goose - Guardian, watchful, wind, the sun, war, inspiration, swift, happiness, providence.
* Hare - rebirth, rejuvenation, resurrection, intuition, balance, fertility, fire, madness, transformation.
* Hawk - Nobility, recollection, cleansing, messenger, observer, Solar, clarity, discrimination, inspiration, the soul.
* Heron - Vigilance, quiet, power of water, the underworld, tact, delicacy, renewal, life, transformation.
* Horse - Stamina, mobility, strength and power, coping under difficult circumstances, love, devotion, loyalty, the land, travel. Life and death symbol, intellect, wisdom, power, nobility, energy, freedom, wildness, divination, prophecy, fertility.
* Hummingbird - Messenger, stopper of time, optimism, sweetness.
* Jackal - Guide of souls, associated with cemeteries.
* Jaguar - Messenger, forest spirits, power.
* Kingfisher - Beauty, dignity, speed, calmness, serenity.
* Leopard - Ferocity, aggression, intrepid, Great Watcher, courage, activity, speed.
* Lion - Solar, splendor, power, majesty, strength, courage, nobility.
* Lizard - Conservation, agility, promotes dreaming.
* Moose - Headstrong, unstoppable, longevity, value, integrity.
* Octopus - The spiral, water, unconscious.
* Otter - Laughter, curiosity, mischievous, feminine power, grace, empathy, joy, play, helpfulness.
* Owl - Wisdom, truth, patience, darkness, a death messenger, divination, solitude, detachment, wisdom, change, totem of clairvoyants and mystics.
* Python - Darkness, feminine, power of Earth, wisdom.
* Rabbit - Alertness, nurturing.
* Ram - Sacrifice, breakthrough, achievement, virility, creativity, the Sun, solar power.
* Raven - Trickster, teacher, hoarder, healing, initiation, protection, shaman's power, transformation, change in consciousness, mark of a shape shifter.
* Salmon - Instinct, persistence, determination, wisdom, inspiration, rejuvenation.
* Seahorse - Confidence, grace.
* Shark - Hunter, survival, adaptability.
* Snake - Shrewdness, transformation, life, death and rebirth, rain, fertility.
* Spider - Creative, pattern of life, connects the past with the future, creating possibilities.
* Stag - Pride, independence, purification.
* Swan - Grace, balance, innocence, faithfulness, solitude, retreat, poetry, sincerity.
* Tiger - Creator, destroyer, strength, ferocity, power, anger, power of Earth.
* Turtle - Self contained, creative source, Earth, informed decisions, planning, adaptability.
* Unicorn - Chastity, purity, dreams, virtue, strength, integrity, magic, healing, freedom.
* Whale - Power of Water, regeneration, death, rebirth.
* Woodpecker - Prophecy, magic, power, guardian of trees, Heralds rain and storms.
* Wren - Spirit, witchcraft, the Oak King.


Now, the reasons houses are Veiled could be many and varied. Perhaps they are Virtues the Ven no longer aspire to... but what if they are still desired virtues but the House defiled those virtues in some way. For example:

House Swan could have aspired to Grace, but political in-fighting destroyed the balance of power and lead the House down an irreparable road to chaos and destruction. Turning a once savvy and innocent house into a band or raging angry nobles that are no better then Ork.

Or maybe the houses ideals simply grew to be more then the rest of the Ven could tolerate. For example:

House Monkey were renown for Mischief. The Ven loved and adored the Monkey for years. It wasn't a party unless there was a Monkey there. Then, things went wrong. Mischief began spreading beyond the fun courtly pranks and into the world of political mischief. The Monkey thought it was all great fun and games, but houses reputations where tarnished beyond repair and it was only a matter of time until the other Houses banded together to Veil the Monkey.


Anyway... just some ideas. I'm prolly WAAAY off base, but its fun to think about :D
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Re: What were the other 4 Houses, and their Virtues?

Postby khelek » Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:04 am

When considering these Houses ask yourself if the Ven were not Couragous when the Falcon were Veiled...
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